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What is tradition yoga? How we can learn from it? Interview with Kaivalyadham leading yoga teacher, Sudhir Tiwari.

Interview by Trinergy Yoga China.

Second part of a video interview at YogaLite France in April 2018. Discussed topics: pranayama and asana practice. Read the original post in French.

Neda: The second best known practice of yoga is certainly Pranayam, so what is the place of Pranayam in traditional yoga ?

Sudhir: See, Pranayam again is a very very important practice it has you know, just to simplify it, because to go into detail with it will take a lot of time. Yogis, thousands of years ago, they realized that the body and mind are not two separate entities. The body depends on the mind and the mind depends on the body, meaning they are interrelated, they’re interconnected. For example, if someone is sick physically, it has an impact on the mind. One starts to become morose, sometimes people start to become slightly depressed. That’s the effect of the body on the mind. Now, sometimes people may have some issues with the mind, it could be anxiety, it could be depression, it could be something else that has an impact on the body, so there is an interconnection between the body and the mind.

But yogis believed that the effect of the mind over the body is much greater than the body on the mind. For example, you may have a person with a perfectly strong body, but a hint of fear will affect that body negatively. You may have a person who may have been compromised from a physical point of view, but with the sheer will, with the sheer strength of the willpower we have seen people conquering the Everest. So the bodies may not be perfect, but with the strength of the mind they have, you know, so yoga says that most of mind has to be taken care of. Now even modern science now is believing that most of the psychosomatic diseases start here. So mind’s effect can be felt at a physical level of course and in a mental.

Now there is no direct way of controlling the mind. If there’s no direct way of calming the mind, if I said “calm down mind, calm down mind calm down”, it’ll become more unrest, so yogis discovered that there is no direct way of calming and controlling the mind down, but you can calm your mind down through the breath, and you can see fully, you know, you can relate it to your everyday life instances. Watch your breath when you’re anxious or angry, you will notice the breath is fast, uneven, in some cases fast and shallow. Watch your breath when you are calm, the breath is calm, systematic, you know, with a rhythm, so yogis said yes, by training the breath we can calm the mind down, and the calm mind is the basis for everything, and hence the practice of Pranayam, because in Pranayam you are doing nothing but calming your breathing down.

Now again fortunately in the age that we are living in, in Kaivalyadham and other institutes, there’s so much research being done on pranayama as a breathing practice and their seeming effects – reduced level of stress, reduced hypertension, ability to concentrate, ability to stay calm. You know, they’re modern parameters that are being used to increase level of GABA you know, and activation of parasympathetic nervous system, so on and so forth, so now there’s a direct link found between the breathing and a calm functioning of the mind, and that’s where the Pranayam comes in.

Please remember, we should not confuse pranayama with deep breathing. The principles of pranayama and deep breathing are totally different. Pranayamic breathing is a specific protocol to be followed. Deep breathing is totally different, so this has to be kept in mind and hence it’s very important to learn Pranayam from a qualified Pranayam teacher.

Neda: Are there any dangers involved with the asana – pranayama practice ?

Sudhir: See, let’s take them one by one. If we talk about asanas, if asanas are done as per the definition and the technique given method, and here we are talking about people with average health, you know, when it comes to people with prior existing sicknesses, disorders like high blood pressure, so on and so forth, then of course you have to consult your doctor and consult you know, but when it comes to people of average health, if you do asanas as per Patanjali’s protocol, there’s no danger in doing asanas because again one of the basic principles of yoga is yathāśakti, as per capacity, listening to your body, not pushing yourself too hard, not forcing yourself. Force and yoga don’t go together, physical force. So from that perspective I would say there’s no danger. Yes of course in everyday life even when you walk we exercise caution, so you have to exercise caution no matter what you do, but you have to … if you do asanas as per Patanjali’s protocol there should be no danger. However for people with pre-existing conditions, obviously you want to talk to your instructor, you want to talk to your doctor, that’s a valid point.

Now when it comes to Pranayam, you know Pranayam has different cycles, there are different kinds of pranayams, and first thing about pranayam is it has to be done under the guidance of a teacher. It’s not like you’re watching TV or reading a book and try to do Pranayam because you’re dealing with your breath. That’s number one.

Now if Pranayam practices are done incorrectly, yes there are some side effects, but I don’t call them risks of doing Pranayam. As I said, even when we walk, we walk cautiously, even when we eat you don’t want to overeat, you eat cautiously. In life caution is an important thing, so is you know when you do Pranayamic practices, caution needs to be exercised. However I would not say they’re dangerous if done under the guidance because Pranayam has to be learned from person who knows. If you do anything just by watching TV or on your own or add things on your own, of course, and in everything there’s inherent, you know, an inherent risk, but as I said one has to exercise caution.

Pranayam practice when it comes to inhaling and exhaling or only, please remember again for those of you who might not know, Pranayam is started by training your inhales and exhales first. Then there’s a third step of pranayam which is a pause. You need to train the pause between the breathing. So when it comes to inhalation and exhalation only there’s no risk, no danger. Now in an advanced state of pranayama, when pause is included then it has to be done under the guidance of the teacher. So that’s something that we need to keep in mind.

A video online interview about Pranayam with Delight Yoga in The Netherlands. In this interview Sudhir reveals more information about the traditional teachings he presents, in general and also specifically in his Pranyam teacher training program.

First part of a video interview at YogaLite France in April 2018. Discussed topics: definition of Yoga, traditional Yoga, Kaivalyadham and Swami Kuvalayanada, the place of asanas in tradional Yoga. Read the original post in French.

Script of the interview

Neda : The first question I would like to ask you is what it is actually Yoga, what does it mean ?

Sudhir : You know, Yoga has a literal meaning and Yoga also has an implied meaning and Yoga has a meaning that is applicable to everyone’s life. Now if you go for the literal meaning of Yoga, the root word for Yoga and Sanskrit is YUJ. YUJ means to join, YUJ means to bring together, that’s the literal meaning. Then you go a little bit further, what is Yoga ? Now bringing together also means to integrate, to put all the pieces together. Now in case of Yoga applying to our lives then the way we define Yoga as Yoga is the integration of one’s personality and this is what Swami Kuvalayananda said about Yoga. His definition of Yoga was Yoga is the integration of one’s personality. Now let us take it a little further, and think about it. What is personality, what is our personality and why does it need to be integrated ? So if you observe a human being if you analyze a human being, the personality is defined on the basis of the body, on the basis of their mind, on the basis of their intellect, on the basis of their interests, on the basis of their emotions, and on the basis of their thoughts. Now sometimes and again I’m not saying sometimes a lot of times for a majority of us, not all of these aspects of our personality work together. If the body is strong, mind is weak, the mind is strong, body sometimes is not functioning properly, sometimes thoughts are not positive, they’re negative, sometimes so there’s always a compromise, and that, Yoga says, is a cause for one to be imbalanced and imbalance is disease. So Yoga says by integrating one’s personality you make a human being stronger, you make a human being better, so that can contribute not only towards themselves but towards everyone. So integration of personality is the simplest way of telling what Yoga is. I know they’re complicated definitions, but again the whole idea is to simplify, to bring everything together, the personality together that is what Yoga is.

Neda : You mentioned Swami Kuvalayananda, can you tell us some more about him ?

Sudhir : Swami Kuvalayanandaji was a pioneer in the field of Yoga. A lot of people you know give a simile. They say what Einstein was to science, Swami Kuvalayananda was to Yoga. He was born in 1886 and his background was basically a Sanskrit scholar and physical education background. At one point in his life you know, he wanted to seek spiritually and as it has been tradition in India you always need to find a master. So he found his master swami Paramahamsa Madhavdasji, and swami Madhavdasji gave swami Kuvalayanadaji a mission, and he said to swami Kuvalayanadaji that Yoga throughout the world now is being diluted, because at that point there was a point where yogic sciences in the West especially and even within India there was dilutions going on.

Neda : it was the beginning of the 20th century …

Sudhir : … beginning of the 20th century and swami Madhavdasji being aware, he said now you have to bring science, modern science, into the
explanation and swami Kuvalayanadaji was the first man in the the world who brought the traditional Yoga and science together. He created a point which is now we call Kaivalyadham Yoga Institute where traditional Yoga and modern science meet. So that is his contribution to the world of yoga. So in this day and age, directly or indirectly, no matter who is doing Yoga, what kind of Yoga they’re doing, they owe a lot to swami Kuvalayanandaji.

Neda : And when we talk about traditional Yoga, what does that actually mean ?

Sudhir : See, it’s not very difficult, please remember, Yoga as a science has evolved in time. No one knows really, you cannot pinpoint when it started. You know, there are people who say okay, it existed when this person was there, it existed around when bhagavad-gita was written, it existed in Vedic period, so we know that Yoga has existed throughout, and there came a point in Yog when Patanjali Maharishi, some people say he was born around 350 BC, some say 5000 years but he created a protocol, especially for the practices that we do. It doesn’t mean that the practices were not done like that prior to him, the practices were done like that prior to him, but based on the observation he created a protocol especially with regards to the practices that we do, namely asanas and pranayam. And but Patanjali’s protocol was that he defined it in the practice, this is how you do practice in general, asanas, this is how you do asanas. Now there are thousands of asanas, but the principle behind how you do them is one he also said what they are and then he said if you do asanas as per the definition, as per the technique, then this is the outcome of it. Now that became the foundation of tradition. What tradition does, it gives you a definition of the practice, it gives you the technique of the practice, and based on the technique and the definition, the outcome of the practice. And practices were being done prior to Patanjali but he’s the one who gave it a protocol and that became the foundation of tradition and then later yogis, again with the texts being written like Hathapradipika, Gherandasamhita, so on and so forth, they follow that basic yogic principle of practice. That is what traditional yoga is. So as I normally say you know 50 years ago and prior to that when you go to practice Yoga you say I’m going to practice Yoga, no one questions you, okay Yoga means Yoga. But now if we do the same thing then 100 questions will come: what kind of Yoga, or style of yoga, what type of yoga. You know 50 years ago Yoga means Yoga that’s it, no questions asked. so what existed prior and for thousands of years prior to that is tradition because it has a specific protocol, a specific protocol they say it is traditional but in its depth it is also very scientific because it addresses various issues, scientific issues, age, health issues so on and so forth, so again there’s a systematic way of doing practices and that is what traditional recipe means.

Neda : And when we talk about these practices today Yoga is easily identified by postural practice. So what is the place of asana practice in traditional Yoga ?

Sudhir : See, asanas are important, it’s not asanas aren’t important, but asanas are not the ending. Always remember, Yoga is the integration of personality as I said. Asanas are probably a means. Now I’ll give you a small, I’ll give you a small, you know, background. There’s another definition of Yoga, that comes from another text it says: [Sanskrit quotation] means your activity, whatever you do, your actions, whether any kinds of actions, but they say doing your actions with sincerity, doing your actions with togetherness, it is Yoga. Mental actions, physical actions, you have to be there. But the texts also say: [Sanskrit quotation]. The only means you have to carry out, whatever duties we have, is our body, isn’t it ? If I want to help someone, I want to cook, I want to do something else, can you do it without the body ? Can you think without the body ? Thinking also ? [Sanskrit quotation]. Body is only the means to do carry out whatever we need to carry out. And since it is the only means we have, it has to be kept empty. Even the goal of Yoga which is integration of personality cannot be carried out without the body. So body has to be kept healthy and that’s where asanas are very important. So asanas yes they have an important role, but they are Yoga. They are the gateway, the entry way to yoga, with Yamas, Niyamas, Asanas. Yoga is much higher practice. It is the integration, it involves a lot of other things, it involves pranayam, it involves Dharana, Dhyana, meditation contemplation, concentration. So these are the things, but asanas has a rightful place but as I said it’s the starting stage when one helps keep their body healthy not acrobats, asana is not acrobats. It’s a very simple way of keeping the body healthy, the principle being that all the organs in the body need to be torn down and the arrangement of the body parts are such as the asana that every single system in the body gets toned up which contributes to health. So that is the rightful way and Patanjali has described also how to do the asanas. so that is the importance of asanas when it comes to Yog, to keep a healthy body